Diskless Install of Gentoox Via Internet On Modified Xbox

Request new features that might make using Gentoox better.
Post Reply

Diskless Install for Gentoox via internet Good Idea?

yes
8
80%
no
2
20%
 
Total votes: 10

murraykj
Banned Losers
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:23 am
Location: Newfoundland Canada

Diskless Install of Gentoox Via Internet On Modified Xbox

Post by murraykj » Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:09 am

Hello,

I have a suggestion related to the install of the Gentoox Operating system on the Xbox.

As we all know the Gentoox can be installed via CD media after downloading the ISO from the site. Also it is possible to do a installation by ftping the contents of the original ISO to the console to initiate a install in suitations where CD Media may be unsuitable.

I have a suggestion.

If the Loader has a provision either in the BIOS or the Loader.xbe to be able to download the contents directly to the console to preform the install. it would be much more simplified method to install the Linux.

I am thinking that the loader or bios should be able to do a FTP and download all the contents to the console to have a running linux operating system. Instead of having to either use boot media or having to manually install it via the GentooX ftp install method eg with stardust.

I was running a older version of Gentoox home, which ran fine for actually a couple of years. I had a suitation in which i needed to do a reinstallation of the software but i no longer had the media i used to do the install, and also not having access to a burner to be able to create the CD from the ISO.

The installer should be able to download the files directly to the console HDD in the same way that a FTP method of installation is accomplished manually from a PC to Xbox connection, file system and all on top of FATX.

It would be able to get a lot more people up and running more quickly, especially either for those who may not have access to installation media or readily access to create the media required for installation.

As a example the Loader XBE as it is installed has various options, if the user can get the XBE into the console and make it run, then all they should have to do is to connect the console to the internet to complete the installation, in a similar manner as doing a manual installation via FTP from the ISO. This eliminates the need to create installation media and also ensures that the user has the most up to date version possible.

Also to add to this feature is that the loader can then always be able to refresh the users install from the downloaded media, once it is already on the drive. The original files i think are around 800 megs. the loader can have a option to reinstall the entire filesystem in a similar manner as a reformat. except because the entire linux filesystem is contained in 2 files on the FATX partition, it would have no effect on any other installed programs other than Gentoox itself, just like having a fresh format gentoox only whenever you want it after the console has downloaded the image itself.

I figure that a simple addition of this feature in the Bios would be nice but i can see the limitations of doing it with the bios because of size of program space in the bios. However this should not be a problem with the LoaderXBE itself.

If we have either a Bios or new Loader with a Internet install function it would be a fantastic option and would surely put GentooX (Portage) as the default operating system for the Console. Simply Put Connect the console to the internet so that it can install the Gentoox. either from the Loader XBE or the Bios.

Merry Christmas to Everyone

Kenny Murray
Newfoundland
Canada

orochi
Gentoox Guru!
Posts: 606
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:11 am

Post by orochi » Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:37 am

I was going to comment on each of your points, but they are defeated by your first suggestion :(

If the Loader has a provision either in the BIOS or the Loader.xbe to be able to download the contents directly to the console to preform the install. it would be much more simplified method to install the Linux.
You need to either have ftp access to copy files to the xbox for softmod or bios reflashing, or even a cd to flash your Modchip, why not finish installing Gentoox if you already have ftp and CD access respectively.

Besides the Gentoox bios only has enough information to check e:\linuxboot.cfg for where to pass off booting off of, that isnt stored in the bios itself, so if you had a blank hdd, you would have no where to download the files to anyway. You would require Resctoox, or Stardust to format the drive to allow it to have files copied to it both needing a CD to do it.

What is so bad with a disked installation anyway? :roll:

User avatar
ShALLaX
Site Admin
Posts: 1973
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 9:25 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Post by ShALLaX » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:00 pm

Hehe, this makes me laugh. I love the idea, I really do. This is near-enough how Gentoox used to work - you'd download a tiny "Stardust" CD (about 20MB ... okay, so you still needed a CD in this case), then the Stardust installer would download the latest version of Gentoox automatically for you and install it meaning you'd never have to keep burning new versions (this is probably why people are so confused over why the installer has a separate name - it used to be a totally separate application, nothing was bundled with it). Why isnt it done like this anymore? Because of the users! People told me in a poll that they didnt like this method (http://gentoox.shallax.com/modules.php? ... er=&thold=)!

It just goes to show that you cannot please everybody.

In the past I briefly looked into adding a simple FTP client into Gentoox Loader but gave up promptly since it didn't seem worth it. Now that there is interest I might look into it again!
The original Xbox adaptation of Gentoo

User avatar
ShALLaX
Site Admin
Posts: 1973
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 9:25 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Post by ShALLaX » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:11 pm

I've made some progress with this, see the main website.
The original Xbox adaptation of Gentoo

Bucko
Power user
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:14 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Post by Bucko » Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:03 am

If I have read this right (sorry it's 1am and am sleepy) you want to download gentoox from the internet and install it all on the xbox (thus diskless). Well if you mean download the distro, surely that would be a lot of bandwidth usage at sourceforge? Or would this be compiled like a stage1 install? Sorry I'm a bit confused atm (life is getting at me) but if loads of users downloaded 800mb distro from sourceforge under linux bios at one time surely it would crash sourceforge or host?

orochi
Gentoox Guru!
Posts: 606
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:11 am

Post by orochi » Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:35 am

Bucko wrote:If I have read this right (sorry it's 1am and am sleepy) you want to download gentoox from the internet and install it all on the xbox (thus diskless). Well if you mean download the distro, surely that would be a lot of bandwidth usage at sourceforge? Or would this be compiled like a stage1 install? Sorry I'm a bit confused atm (life is getting at me) but if loads of users downloaded 800mb distro from sourceforge under linux bios at one time surely it would crash sourceforge or host?


why do a stage1 install when all the computers are the same, why not just download a pre compiled system thats optimized, but im very interested in how this server/client system will go with the bios

User avatar
ShALLaX
Site Admin
Posts: 1973
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 9:25 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Post by ShALLaX » Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:56 am

It would be no different from people downloading the CD, burning.. then installing. Besides, you're forgetting that you can cache files on the hard drive!
The original Xbox adaptation of Gentoo

User avatar
cheesyboofs
Power user
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:32 pm
Location: Luton UK
Contact:

Post by cheesyboofs » Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:14 am

I'm all for this, If I can do away with the F'in CD-RW's that dont like booting in Thompson and Philips CD drives. Also shallax if you could somehow let the user point it at ones own HTTP server then one could keep a local dump for future builds :)
Go fully native, it's the destiny of all Mk1 XboxesImage
The needs of the many out way the needs of the few or the one ...

User avatar
ShALLaX
Site Admin
Posts: 1973
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 9:25 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Post by ShALLaX » Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:09 pm

Yep, being able to choose the server has always been part of the plan... doing it is going to be tough. As it is, I'm having huge issues with reliability. Some times the connection is never made :\
The original Xbox adaptation of Gentoo

User avatar
cheesyboofs
Power user
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:32 pm
Location: Luton UK
Contact:

Post by cheesyboofs » Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:45 am

This is so clever, how many other Linux servers can you boot & recover at a bios / loader level. This is the icing on the cake IMO to what has become a fantastic venture!
Go fully native, it's the destiny of all Mk1 XboxesImage
The needs of the many out way the needs of the few or the one ...

murraykj
Banned Losers
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:23 am
Location: Newfoundland Canada

So Far So Good

Post by murraykj » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:40 am

Well I gotta say, Shallax has done a nice Job on the new 6.01 loader, the netboot option is really nice.

Im thinking that with the addition of additional servers and or IP's that many different options can be selected, not just by adding them to the loader but depending on the IP selected the install differences can take place from there.

as of now with the new loader we have the ability to load the File system utilities.

Additional options such as various installation types can be accomidated by simply using alternate IP's for the net boot.

This means that the user can not only install the operating system, but can install a specific version that can be taylored to their specific operating requirements and or alternate utilities required for installation such as formatting and partitioning ect..

as stated earlier, with the issue of formating a new hdd because the user may not have installation media, i cant really see a problem here because if there is a small kernel loaded to RAM, and it has the ability to store the partitioning and formating programs there. they should be able to be run from ram, and thus partition and format the HDD. Then Download the files that are required for installation to a freshly formatted HDD.

This New Loader Idea, could possibly revolutionize the way that we install our operationg systems.

One thought under the partitioning is that the actual install files could go to a specific Install partition. the user can have the option to download the new distro to the drive as required. and thus if the user wanted to have a new working install of the os it can be run from there. instead of having to be downloaded again. or the user can upgrade if a newer distro is aviable instead of using the magic option.

I got it figured out as a operational flowchart. It Should work and so far seems to be a good idea. Not Just for Xbox BUT for Computer System BIOS's as well.

Once the drive is partitioned and formatted, all it really needs is something like a install partition. that would contain installation files only.

oh well, we gone from the loader to the partition (-:

murraykj
Banned Losers
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:23 am
Location: Newfoundland Canada

Nice

Post by murraykj » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:15 am

There was one other point that I forgot to mention But I'm sleepy now also, we all got a fiew late ones on this.

Purely Hypothetical:
Who ever thought that you could do system administration of a CrayOS mainframe on your Tv In your Living room with a Toy Running Xwindows.

Funny, Isnt it.

(-:

Best Wishes For 2006

Kenny


Nice Work Shallax, U Tha Man (-:
Xbox V1.0 Gentoox 4 Home on FatX
Bios Ver X2_4980 Evox +3935 W/ 6.01 XBELDR
Mod 28 Wire Protected Socket By Vincent (-:
Maxtor 40G Hdd (Donated By Friend)
Intec Xbox LCD Display Unit (sis lost tha scart)
Motorola WE800G Wireless Bridge (Good...)

orochi
Gentoox Guru!
Posts: 606
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:11 am

Re: Nice

Post by orochi » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:02 am

murraykj wrote:There was one other point that I forgot to mention But I'm sleepy now also, we all got a fiew late ones on this.

Purely Hypothetical:
Who ever thought that you could do system administration of a CrayOS mainframe on your Tv In your Living room with a Toy Running Xwindows.

Funny, Isnt it.

(-:

Best Wishes For 2006

Kenny


Nice Work Shallax, U Tha Man (-:
I was going to reply but im not even going to touch this :\

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest